Episode #8: How to Plan a Fall Garden with Courtney Johnson
In this episode on the HobbyScool podcast, I chat with Courtney Johnson with The Kitchen Garten. Courtney is a wife, homeschooling mom of 3, a lifelong gardener as well as a certified master gardener and garden coach. She enjoys teaching others about how to get started gardening right in their own backyards, as well as how to take garden fresh produce and use it in delicious recipes or preserve it for use later.
She is the owner and content creator behind the Kitchen Garten website and has published several gardening books and planners which can be purchased on her site.
Specifically, we discussed:
Is it really possible to start a garden in the fall?
What are the benefits to gardening in fall?
What kind of space is required to start a garden?
What are some fall garden staples?
How would someone begin the process of planning a fall garden?
Can a fall garden be carried over into the winter?
Links mentioned in the episode:
Where you can find Courtney: The Kitchen Garten
Grab your free gift from Courtney here: The How to Start a Vegetable Garden e-book
Don't forget to join our wait list for the next HobbyScool online learning summit. Our summits are free to attend and you can be the first to know when the next summit launches by getting on the wait list here.
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Transcript: How to Plan a Fall Garden with Courtney Johnson
00:00:02 Dr. Destini Copp (host)
And today my special guest is Courtney Johnson. She is the owner of the Kitchen Garden. She's a wife, a homeschooling mom of 3A lifelong gardener, as well as a certified master gardener and a garden coach. She enjoys teaching others about how to get started in gardening right away in their own backyards, as well as how to take garden fresh produce and use it in delicious represent recipes.
00:00:32 Dr. Destini Copp (host)
Or preserve it for later use. She is the owner and content creator behind the Kitchen Garden website and has published several gardening books and planners which can be purchased on her website and Courtney, thank you so much for joining me. I am super excited to chat with you today about how to plan a fall garden.
00:00:55 Courtney Johnson (guest)
Oh, thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited to be here. This is obviously a subject that I'm very passionate about and I'm happy to share the knowledge that I have with others.
00:01:07 Dr. Destini Copp (host)
So I have a lot of great questions for you. I don't know a lot about this topic myself, so I definitely want to dive into it. But before I do that, can you tell the good audience a little bit more about you and how to, how you got started into into all of this and how you help people?
00:01:26 Courtney Johnson (guest)
Sure, well, I come from a long line of gardeners and farmers.
00:01:34 Courtney Johnson (guest)
We, my grandparents, uh, both sides, always had a garden and my father's side of the family were actually farmers. He grew up in a farming household, and so I feel like the gene just kind of carried on. But as soon as my husband and I got married and we had our own house, the first thing I wanted was a garden. And so since that point I have learned through a lot of trial and error. What to do, what?
00:02:04 Courtney Johnson (guest)
Want to do? I'm actually still learning. I think most gardeners would tell you that it is a lifelong process of learning new things, but there is something really magical about being able to put a seed into the ground and seeing it grow and also being able to see how food grows, especially now that we have children. We have three children where their food comes from. How you can grow things at home and just see it.
00:02:35 Courtney Johnson (guest)
Importance of some sustainability, of being able to actually produce food in your very own yard. I think it's a really important skill that I certainly want to pass on to my children and to anyone who has a little square inch of land that they want to use. I think anybody really can learn to garden, no matter if you think you have a black thumb or not. I think that there's there's something for everybody to guard it with.
00:03:05 Dr. Destini Copp (host)
So Courtney, I will tell you that my experience with this has been very, very limited. So during COVID when everybody was starting home gardens, we thought you know that would be great. We have the time. Well, you know, buy one of those little raised beds or I guess it was still in the ground. But I think it still was still considered a raised bed and I will tell you it didn't go very well for us so so I'm anxious to kind of delve into this with you and.
00:03:35 Dr. Destini Copp (host)
I I will say that when I think of starting a garden and again this is based on my very limited, you know, experience with this. Always think about you got to do it. You got to plant in the spring, but we're going to talk about today about how to, you know, start and plan a fall garden and is it really possible to do this in the fall? What I don't even know what grows in the fall.
00:04:02 Courtney Johnson (guest)
And that is a really common misconception actually. Among people who think that you really can only guard it in the spring and the summer time. You know that's when you get your tomatoes. Isn't that? When isn't that when we're supposed to garden at home? But honestly, the fall is I consider to be one of my favorite times of year to garden, and there's a few reasons for this. One, it's a whole lot cooler outside, so I'm not sweating sweating all the time and you can. You can garden throughout the day.
00:04:34 Courtney Johnson (guest)
Here in the summertime, if I don't get it done in the morning or in the late afternoon, there's nothing happening in the garden because it's just so hot. So the fall really gives you the flexibility to be out in the garden.
00:04:47 Courtney Johnson (guest)
All times of day.
00:04:50 Courtney Johnson (guest)
The other thing is that there tend to be fewer pests in the fall. So whereas we're fighting all kinds of things in the summertime, the fall doesn't have as many because it gets cooler at night. That's not very sustainable temperature wise for some pests that naturally kind of kills them off, so that's really nice. There's less watering because you don't have that sun beating down on your plants.
00:05:13 Courtney Johnson (guest)
And your soil every day, so there's less water, so less resources you're having to pay for. And then finally, I do find that you can grow some super nutritious things in the fall that just can't hack the heat of summer. I'm thinking like your leafy greens that are just so rich in iron and some and vitamin C and things like that. Perfect to grow in the fall and it really is an encouraging time of year for beginner gardeners.
00:05:43 Courtney Johnson (guest)
Because things like kale and lettuces and spinach are so much harder to kill, so you can really.
00:05:52 Courtney Johnson (guest)
Be less, you can tend your garden less in the fall and still see some pretty great results. So I think for beginner gardeners it's a really great time to begin.
00:06:04 Dr. Destini Copp (host)
So that's what I probably should have done.
00:06:06 Courtney Johnson (guest)
Probably should have.
00:06:07 Dr. Destini Copp (host)
Started in the fall and you did mention some of the things that do well in the fall, like the Kell, the the spinach, some of the more you know leafier top grease. What else? If I was planning out a fall garden what other type?
00:06:22 Dr. Destini Copp (host)
Of vegetables could I expect to get during that time of year?
00:06:28 Courtney Johnson (guest)
Great question, great question. You have your classics and a lot of these are going to be greens because that's just what does really well. But you do have your classic greens of your kale, collards, turnip greens, so if you live in the South at least the collards, the turnip, green semester greens probably all sound very familiar. They are classic Southern Southern foods and but you can also grow through things like lettuces like romaine or your mixed lettuces or mizuna, which is a very.
00:06:59 Courtney Johnson (guest)
Like a spicy, delicious green. Some more Asian choices like your tat soy and your bok choy also grow really well in the fall.
00:07:11 Courtney Johnson (guest)
Swiss Chard, which is gorgeous if you've never seen it growing or if you ever tried to grow it, you can literally grow Swiss Chard in your front flower bed and people will stop and ask what it is. It's got these brightly colored stalks with these beautiful green leaves, and you can eat them raw, or you can saute them so yummy and you can eat the stem almost like a piece of celery. So lovely, lovely.
00:07:39 Courtney Johnson (guest)
I also tend to grow my garlic in the fall, so garlic is one of those.
00:07:46 Courtney Johnson (guest)
Ohh, I'd hesitate to even call it a vegetables in the Allium family, but it.
00:07:50 Courtney Johnson (guest)
Is planted in the fall and then left alone and harvested in May or June, so I also tend to plant my garlic in the in the front flower bed because it's just some green top set. Come up and you just make sure that they stay decently watered. Some years we are successful at that and some years not and it really I call it my set it and forget it plant because you can just plant them and just let them grow so those really are my favorites. You can also grow.
00:08:21 Courtney Johnson (guest)
And things like carrots. If you go ahead and start them at the end of the summer, they'll grow into the fall. Same thing with your brassicas like cauliflower and broccoli. Cabbage. All of those things like the cooler temperatures and hopefully planting in the fall. You can also plant those things early spring, but planting in the fall again will give you a little bit of an advantage on bugs because there are certain types of bugs that just love to eat those those cabbage and that broccoli and cauliflower and things like that.
00:08:51 Courtney Johnson (guest)
So you can have a very.
00:08:53 Courtney Johnson (guest)
Great variety of vegetables growing in the fall garden. Don't feel like it has to. Just be your leafy greens.
00:09:01 Dr. Destini Copp (host)
Well and a lot of things that you mentioned there. I absolutely love them like the carrots and the cow flower and the broccoli. So there's there's tons of options that you gave, but I really liked your tip on what you could. You know some of this. You could actually plant in a front flower bed, which is, you know, because a lot of us, you know, myself included, we don't have a ton of space. I certainly don't live on my farm.
00:09:24 Dr. Destini Copp (host)
Which has acres and acres there, but a flat, a front flower bed would be absolutely perfect. So Courtney, I really love the tip that you had about some of these.
00:09:37 Dr. Destini Copp (host)
Fall like vegetables. We could actually plant in our front garden and the one I think that you mentioned there. If it was like the Swiss charge, I thought that was just a really, really good tip because a lot of us including myself we just don't have a lot of room to you know, to play in a huge garden. I certainly don't live on a farm that has acres and acres there. Can you tell us a little bit about what kind of space is required for a fall garden and can we do it just on a.
00:10:08 Dr. Destini Copp (host)
A little, little like raised bed or what? What do you recommend there?
00:10:13 Courtney Johnson (guest)
Right, this is such a great question. It's something I get asked a lot and I honestly have to say that my inspiration for utilizing all of the space within my yard comes from Amy Strauss's book called the Suburban Micro Farm, and she has her own website called the 10th Acre Farm, and she literally grew enough vegetables to produce CSA.
00:10:43 Courtney Johnson (guest)
Community supported agriculture I think is what it stands for. Essentially she could sell the produce from her yard and all she had was 1/10 of an acre. And so I got a lot of ideas from her, like planting Swiss Chard in the front flower bed.
00:10:58 Courtney Johnson (guest)
As well as.
00:11:00 Courtney Johnson (guest)
Growing the garlic in the front flower beds, herbs, lots of lettuces you can grow in in the space where you probably have shrubs. Now you can also utilize of course raised beds. I think a lot of us think about raised beds when we think about a garden, but you can also use planters on your patio or your front porch or a balcony even if that's all you have. In fact, one of the most popular classes I ever hosted locally was making.
00:11:30 Courtney Johnson (guest)
Self watering planters out of galvanized buckets and I had women telling me for months that those plants just kept growing and kept growing because things like lettuces that are very popular in the fall. You can cut and come again that essentially means.
00:11:48 Courtney Johnson (guest)
If you've grown something like romaine, you can cut off the outer leaves to take inside to eat for dinner and then the plant itself keeps growing and producing so you can cut again and then come back and cut again and come back so you don't have to have a lot of space. If you are going to grow something like broccoli and cauliflower, obviously that's going to require a little bit more.
00:12:11 Courtney Johnson (guest)
For that, a race that is really lovely, or something like an earth box which you can. You can get this on Amazon and they are great. They're gonna require a little bit more space and care, but still completely doable.
00:12:28 Courtney Johnson (guest)
So yeah, those are some some things that I think don't have as much space constraints.
00:12:34 Courtney Johnson (guest)
Have some of your bigger summer vegetables like tomatoes and things like that.
00:12:39 Dr. Destini Copp (host)
So I like what you said about having that self watering planter. That sounds exactly like what you know, something that I would need to to start on something like this, so can you tell the good audience here? If they're, you know if somebody out there thinking about planning a fall garden, where would you recommend that they start?
00:13:03 Courtney Johnson (guest)
Great question. Well, I always tell people to start by thinking about what you eat. I think sometimes when we get into a planning phase of a garden, especially if you have a seed catalog or you're at your local hardware store that has plants, our dreams tend to go tend to go beyond what we can realistically support. So I like to tell people just to sit down. And what are some things that you eat pretty frequently?
00:13:34 Courtney Johnson (guest)
That your family enjoys, uh, this is from experience, personal experience of growing lots of eggplant, only to find out that I'm the only person in this house that actually likes it. So think about what your family likes to eat and then plan accordingly. If you're a beginner gardener, I can't stress enough. Mel Bartholomew's Book Square foot gardening, it really breaks it down into if you're if you're using a raised bed, for example.
00:14:05 Courtney Johnson (guest)
If you're raised bed is broken up into square feet, so that means a 4 by 4 bed would be 16 square feet. How many plants can each of those square feet support? So things like one broccoli plant or 16 carats? He's very specific, but for a beginner gardener it's perfect. OK, sometimes we need to have our hand held.
00:14:30 Courtney Johnson (guest)
And be just be told exactly what do I need to play in here? What exactly does this plant need? And so there are so many great resources for that, and I have a lot of how to grow guides on my website for how to go. Pretty much everything, and there's some really wonderful resources out there, both online and at your local library that you could probably check out.
00:14:54 Dr. Destini Copp (host)
So the last question I have for you, Courtney, is the fall garden that we start now can it? Can we, you know, bring it through to the winter? Can we add to it or will some of the things still be growing in the winter? How does that work?
00:15:11 Courtney Johnson (guest)
Sure, great question and a lot of that depends on where you live. So you and I of course both live in the southeastern part of the United States and we can pretty much grow all winter long so that kale and those collars that we planted that we plant here in the fall. Spinach also parsley will carry all the way through and will probably still be there. Come the spring garden Swiss Chard.
00:15:41 Courtney Johnson (guest)
As well, some things will naturally die out.
00:15:45 Courtney Johnson (guest)
If you plant carrots and radishes, obviously when you harvest those, they'll be done, but if you live in more northern climates, then the chances are that your that your plants once you get into the really hard parts of winter may freeze over, and that's OK. That's OK to give your garden a rest, but if you would like to continue gardening and you do live further N, then there are certainly things that you can do, such as putting a cold frame over a raised bed, which kind of looks like a little mini.
00:16:16 Courtney Johnson (guest)
In house and it just sits on top and it will keep your plants protected in that harsh weather. So it certainly is possible for you to grow all winter long. It's just very dependent on where you live.
00:16:32 Dr. Destini Copp (host)
So Courtney thank you for all of your great tips today and before we leave. Can you tell folks where they can find you and learn more?
00:16:40 Courtney Johnson (guest)
Sure, thank you again for having me and your listeners can find me at the Kitchen Garden and that's garden with the tea, not garden. It's the German word for garden and I have lots of resources there all free.
00:16:58 Courtney Johnson (guest)
For you guys.
00:17:00 Courtney Johnson (guest)
To check out, because it really is my goal for people to be able to grow food in their own backyards, and to do it in a in a fun and easy environment.
00:17:11 Dr. Destini Copp (host)
And I'll make sure that the links for that for your website and for your Instagram and YouTube are on the podcast show notes so everybody can just click on it and find you. And you also have a free gift for the audience too.
00:17:27 Courtney Johnson (guest)
Absolutely last year I created a how to start a vegetable garden e-book and guide. So it's actually a workbook, so if you've never grown a garden before, this will be a perfect resource for you to utilize to really help get what you're thinking you want down on paper and take you step by step through the process of where do I even begin? Because there is a bit more to it than just maybe putting in a raised bed or just tilling up some.
00:17:57 Courtney Johnson (guest)
A little patch of your backyard or something like this so it really walks you through step by step how to get started and it's my pleasure to offer that to you guys for free so that you can get started and I have contact information in there as well. So if you have questions along the way, I'm always happy to get emails from readers to help them out with their with their regarding lows.
00:18:21 Dr. Destini Copp (host)
So thank you, Courtney. And as I mentioned, we'll make sure that all the links in the show notes for folks so they can just click on them and find you.
00:18:28 Dr. Destini Copp (host)
And also grab that free gift and thank you so much for joining me today and sharing your welcome knowledge related to fall gardens.
00:18:36 Courtney Johnson (guest)
Absolutely, I thank you so much for having me.